Urge Overkill Interview

Urge Overkill released one of the great albums of the 90’s with Saturation containing ridiculously great rock songs like Sister Havana, Positive Bleeding, Tequila Sunrise and Bottle of Fur. They appeared in Pulp Fiction, had a huge hit with a cover of Girl, You’ll Be A Woman Soon and toured with Nirvana and Pearl Jam. And before all that they had a series of very cool albums on the independent Touch and Go label. In a lot of ways Urge Overkill represented all that was great – a few parts that went very wrong – from that so-called, ‘alternative rock’ era.

The band split after their album Exit The Dragon proved to be prophetically titled, and it wasn’t until the mid 2000’s that band leaders Nash Kato and Eddie ’King’ Roeser could play together again.  It took until last year for them to release a new album, the impressive and distinctive Rock N Roll Submarine.

Now Urge Overkill are returning to Australia for a short tour and Ed Roeser provided me with a wide ranging and detailed interview about then, now and tomorrow.

HHMM: Great that you are coming back to Australia again. Do you find this is a country that seems to understand and appreciate the bands entire history, rather than just one album and an appearance on Pulp Fiction.

ER: It all depends. Maybe we have constructed it in our minds. Everybody loves Australia but we like to think we have a special affinity, ‘a special relationship’, as President Bush said. There are people that are wholly unaware of our early catalogue everywhere we go, and we are stunned to the degree that many people will not know who you are talking about until we say, ‘Well, we were in that movie Pulp Fiction”, and they’ll say “Oh you’re that band!” You get all kinds. Not being ubiquitous, you don’t know what to assume. Most people who end up writing stuff have a sense of the history and all that and certainly we’re very proud of that. We broke into the game, right before there was a game as it were.  We do have plenty of history to talk about and it makes interviews tough because there is so much scuttlebutt from the past, so its tough to do short interviews.

HHMM: With the new record, some people have commented that it picks up where Exit The Dragon left off, whereas other people say that it reminds them of the Touch and Go albums. Where do you see it fitting in with your catalogue?

ER: It wasn’t something that we noticed or really thought about, but we did get a lot of comments where people said it picks up where Dragon left off, and on top of that, Dragon was my favorite Urge record. It was a very dark time for us, but we’re very happy with what came out of the Exit The Dragon sessions – but it was fractious time.  It was a honest record I think. Some of the devil may care fun, was missing on that record and we couldn’t manufacture it, but some of the positive things that we have on this record – when people talk of it reminding them of Touch and Go – we did have a less smoothly organized experience, it wasn’t a corporate product and we felt like it didn’t have the polish that a major record would have – and that was fine too. Of course you got that on Exit The Dragon too. It wasn’t polished but it was very much me or Nash isolated on our own projects whereas this record has the feel of a bunch of guys just kinda having a good time. And that feeling I associate with the Touch & Go times. Maybe our sunniest record was Saturation but we were very conscious of bringing self-consciously glossy production elements on that. We didn’t have the means or the desire to do that on this record but I wouldn’t rule it out in the future. What makes me happiest is that after this amount of time between records there is a something that people recognize as us. It’s like pornography, you know it when you see it. With Urge, they know it when they hear it and that’s what brings the smile to the collective face of the band. I don’t know what that quality is, but I think our true believers were happy with the record and we didn’t have any illusions of coming back and taking over the world, but for those who waited and told us they were anticipating this for a long time, most of them were very pleasantly not let down. That’s the last thing you want to do. We were doing a record to follow what I think was a very weird, interesting progression of records . We put it together over such a long period of time that I think all the ineffectual elements feel out and we go a properly eclectic mix of songs. It was hard to narrow it down from the various ideas we had over the years. We’d been at it for quite q while on and off. Not living in the same town anymore had a lot to do with the eclectic nature of it. There were tracks taken from various different sessions we had and it can be a slippery slope to do a record like that but I think in the end it came together in a way that we are happy with and I think takes some of the pressure off. We are very much looking forward to continuing in this vein now because I think we made it a little harder on ourselves than we had to. This is all supposed to be fun and we were getting a little revved up over the years and probably judging a little too harshly what was going to go on there. We like to think we have a high bar for songs, but sometimes putting on things that are ideas that are not polished or finished or not conceptually realized is more interesting as well. Guided By Voices is one of my favorite bands and you see them with ideas sketched out and they are good and they put them out.

HHMM: I find this record really creeps up on me. Songs like Effigy and She’s My Ride are very immediate and you love them straight away, but other songs like The Valiant or Touch To A Cut creep up on you a bit more. Is that the way you look at it?

ER: We sat with these cuts for a while. We had other songs that didn’t make the record. These were songs that already stood the test of time for us, even though they were unfinished, They were in a demo form that we came to believe were done. The Valiant has a lot of production ideas on it. We knew it was a strong song but we fleshed it out quite a bit and there are a lot of instruments on it. We had a stripped down version of it that was cool.  We were pretty hard on ourselves and we thought that we had a record that would reward people who spent some time with it. It would be something where people weren’t reaching for that CD fast forward button. In the end its an interesting journey I think and that’s part of the fun and the challenge of the way we see putting together a record. We want it to flow. It doesn’t have to be a concept record but we all know that classic record enjoyment of the days of yore. That doesn’t mean the kids today don’t appreciate it. Being a dad myself I hear that the kids are still up with the classics like us, so that’s cool.

HHMM: Looking back at Saturation, it’s amazing that there are actually a number of people who think it’s their favorite album ever. That’s a pretty extreme reaction to have but there are some people who feel that way. Does that strike you as an amazing thing.

ER: At that time there was an optimism that bled into the record and I think all the anticipation of us thinking, “Wow are we going to be big rockstars” and that excitement came through. We had these big producers The Butcher Brothers who were really good at keeping things fun. Those guys had been producing hip-hop records for the longest time but they had grown up with The Beatles. They were veterans in the recording studio but they had gone into this niche of doing mainly hip-hop records which frankly isn’t that interesting to do. We were all just kinda amazed at what was coming out of the speakers. I think the record had no sense of disappointment and no sense of us being under the pressure cooker of expectations – which is kind of how it ought to be. We weren’t questioning our choices at all and we just happened to have the right amount time and the record wasn’t over-thought. We were able to do some things with production that we had always wanted to do and it was the first time that we had enough time to perfect things but not too much time. The technology didn’t exist yet where you could sit and perfect things. We were using tape and they had a legendary Neve board that sounded great and they were able to bring that sound to the tracks. But I do hear people say that a lot and I do have great memories of it. It was a real weird stroke of luck that the guy that signed the band hooked us up with The Butchers. They were like these mischievous little Italian guys who had that really rude Philadelphia sense of humor, but they were really smart guys. They were not the stereotype producer. It does flow and it goes down easy. The way that it ends with Heaven 90210  – that was the very first thing we did with them, just to check out the studio. It was a very straight-forward song but for the first time we had the time to put some production touches in there. I think another reason it worked out that well is that we did have time to prepare. We had done quite a bit of demoing at home in our basement studio, that we kept. If something sounded really crazy that we could never recapture we’d just keep it. For being a major label they understood that we weren’t trying to do something to be taken that seriously, but still was serious music from an aesthetic sense.

HHMM: You mentioned the word ‘mischievous’ when talking about the Butchers  and its funny you should say that because to me that’s the spirit of Saturation, and its something that it shares with bands like Cheap Trick or Mott The Hopple or Thin Lizzy. Were you aware of being in the tradition of those kinds of bands?

ER: I think so. It’s not a manufactured thing. It’s just something that happens in the everyday of the recording of the record. You get some in-jokes happening and some fun and it filters in. You are not going to get that when you have a whole lot of animosity in the band. We had less of that at that time. After that record the recreation was more from drugs than from good clean fun, which was what Saturation was all about.  In a lot of ways we’ve been lucky in our career to be recording at the right time and with the right amount of preparedness. I think that something you create when you have limited time and recording is an event. Now everything is digitized and you have everything at your fingertips. You don’t even need to remember the day some guitar track was recorded. It’s all kind of not real. If your guitar is out of tune a bit, ‘no problem, we have a machine for that.’ We still had mixing that was not automated so if you wanted to change something in the mix somebody had to stand there and run that fader so that no two mixes were exactly the same.

HHMM: At that time guys like me in the media and guys at record companies and people in bands, we were all talking about the ‘alternative scene’ and ‘alternative rock”. What the hell was that all about?

ER: I don’t know. I think it came about as a way to separate what was supposedly new from everything that had come before, but I don’t think there was anything new about it at all. I don’t think it was any different to what happened in the punk rock years when you had bands that were actively at odds with the record companies about what was acceptable and what was good. The term ‘alternative’ did indeed have a couple of years of currency and the dream was over pretty quick as I remember it. It really didn’t take very long for those stations, at least in Chicago to go to pop commercial stations, and they are all out of business now. I don’t think anything was being re-invented but for a few years it was better than having the new Michael Jackson album as the main point of interest. For a while it was a welcome change to have that happen.

HHMM: From that era when Urge Overkill were ubiquitous and everyone wanted to be your friend was it a time when you made life-long friends out of your peers or did everyone kinda just drift away when the dream was over?

ER:  By that time in my life I was maybe 27, 28 and I didn’t get as caught up in it as some did. I had more a stable relationship and life and I probably didn’t get as burned as the other two guys did. With Blackie, he probably had an opportunity to get deeper into the life of drugs than he would have without being a rockstar for a few years and that was a life-destroying event for him. The thing that was most disappointing thing was that the band itself didn’t survive those expectations and I do feel that there were people who depended on the scene. Things were working just fine for us thank you very much but because we weren’t as big as Pearl Jam it was decided that somebody was doing something wrong. All of a sudden we supposedly needed a whole new team and that kind of factionalism really fucked us up. Like you said, there was a big element of that. When you’ve got it going on, you are never wrong and everybody is going to be your buddy, even though they are the last person who knows anything about music and about how we got our brand of music to taken seriously. There was some elements from the Hollywood establishment and elsewhere that did foul things up and are any of those people around now? Certainly not!

HHMM: I understand that you are quite well advanced on the next record.

ER: Well, we haven’t done that much writing, but we have plenty of ideas from the last one. Before we did much thinking about it, we did go in for a couple of days and were able to put down some stuff that came about really easy, compared to how slowly the last stuff went.  I think its going to come out pretty quick and its going to be an easier project. I’m all in favor of less thinking about it and more moving ahead. It ends up being the most interesting music to listen to.

 

THURSDAY 8TH MARCH: MELBOURNE, THE ESPY Tickets $45 + bf from www.espy.com.au, ph: 1300 762 545 or in person at the Espy Bottleshop and all Oztix outlets

FRIDAY 9TH MARCH: BRISBANE, THE ZOO Tickets $40 + bf from feelpresents.oztix.com.au, ph: 1300 762 545 or in person at the venue box office and all Oztix outlets

SATURDAY 10TH MARCH: SYDNEY, THE GAELIC Tickets $44 + bf from feelpresents.oztix.com.au, ph: 1300 762 545 or in person at all Oztix outlets

 

Also playing the Golden Plains Festival 2012

 

The Clouds Return For Tour

The Clouds were one of Australia’s leading bands of the 90’s during a time when the independent scene and the mainstream reached a strange point of co-dependence. Eventually major label politics bought about their demise, but this year they are returning for a tour with international re-unionists Jesus Jones and The Wonder Stuff. HHMM spoke to leader of The Clouds Jodi Phillis in anticipation of the tour.

HHMM: Who would have predicted that in 2011 you would have been touring with Jesus Jones and The Wonder Stuff?

JP: I don’t think anyone. It’s bizarre isn’t it, but kind of cool.

HHMM: Did you know those bands personally the first time around?

JP: I think we might have played with The Wonder Stuff, but I’m not sure. I’ll have to ask the rest of the band if they remember that. But I don’t remember meeting Jesus Jones though. I mean, we were all around at the same time so I guess the people putting this bill together figured it was a big 90’s thing. We were around at the same time and I remember the Jesus Jones single was a standout song.

HHMM:  Whether by design or co-incidence, the tour co-incides with the 20^th Anniversary of the release of Penny Century. Was that something you were aware of?

JP: Yeah. Stuart, our original drummer was trying to organize the Penny Century shows which we were all a bit “maybe”, about. None of us were that keen  because we always thought we had so many other songs that we’d want to play in the set and not miss out.  It just didn’t feel right to just do Penny Century.  So we left that idea on the backburner. Soon after that Trish wrote an email to everybody out of the blue – because we hadn’t really keep in touch – and at that time everyone said “yeah, lets do it”. We were about to organize our own tour and then we got the email about the Jesus Jones tour and it all kind of made sense really. Mainly because I wanted to play at the Enmore and the Tivoli. I really love those venues and I’d never played at the Enmore so I was excited about that, so it felt like a fun thing to do.

HHMM: Looking back, it was an interesting time in music, especially in Australia.  It was a time when there was a real blurring between what was ‘indie’ and what was mainstream. Where did you see yourselves in that world?

JP: It was kind of when  ‘indie’ became a style rather than meaning you were independent and had no money behind you. We started off indie with RedEye but then Redeye signed with Polydor and so we became part of a major roster. I’m sure all those other bands that were called indie all had some connection to a major label. I mean, look at Nirvana.  “Indie’ became an adjective. But I think the thing about those times was the melody.  There was so much melody going around. The music was very powerful and there was so much distortion as well, but I think there were really amazing melodies and chord progressions that had really happened before.  That’s my perspective. We were part of that, and so were The Pixies and so were Lush and Nirvana and lots of bands. That was the thing that was happening in the nineties that was so exciting.

HHMM: It was also interesting that a lot of the bands in Australia from that time were smart enough to avoid over-staying their welcome. Bands like Falling Joys and The Hummingbirds and yourselves – in a way history overlooks you to an extent because you didn’t run around flogging a dead horse.  Do you know what I mean by that?

JP: Sure. I really admire bands that can keep going though. I’ll tell you one band that I only recently discovered called The Cardiacs.  They are a perfect example of why I said yes to doing a Clouds tour. I’ve been doing my own stuff for ages now and I’ve been on my own path, but two weeks before Trish sent the email to everyone I had discovered this band called The Cardiacs. They started in 1977 in London and had been inspired by Split Enz and the Sex Pistols. They kept going for over 30 years until the front guy had a heart attack – oddly enough – and just recently they stopped touring. They’ve got this huge underground fanbase and really loyal fans and they have created this whole world of music. They are so amazing. The reminded me a bit of the Clouds when I heard it and it made me think it would be so much fun to play our songs again, really tight and really well and with the energy I was hearing from the Cardiacs. That’s what made me excited to do it again. I know that every bloody nineties band is re-uniting this year and our reunion has nothing to do with that. It wouldn’t have happened if I hadn’t have been inspired by The Cardiacs. They’ve never had a label, they’d always been ignored by the press and by the industry, but they kept doing it. So that inspired me.

HHMM:  In that time in Australian music, can you remember the mood? Was it euphoric or was it a slog that everyone was on? Was everybody making plans or was it all random?

JP: We had management organizing everything, but our lives were pretty random, in that we just wrote songs, practiced them, recorded them and toured. That was our life. We were young, we didn’t have kids then. Also, yes, it was euphoric and there was definitely a theory on the whole thing and our fans were very loyal.  You can only go round Australia so many times. So when we started going to London and living there and living in San Francisco and signing to Elektra that’s when it got a bit more serious and a bit more hard work. That became a bit more intense.

HHMM: Was there ever a plan for world domination or was that never part of the plan?

JP: That was definitely part of the plan. We thought we were doing that but then Elektra dropped their whole international roster, soon after we had signed to them. So that was real spanner in the works because we were ready to keep touring the States and getting on with the job, but it stopped everything. It got a bit difficult from that point.

HHMM: A lot of people say that out of that scene and out of that time a lot of lifelong relationships and friendships emerged, has that been the case for you?

JP: Sure. I’ll always love all the members from The Clouds and Susie from the Falling Joys is still a good friend. But everyone has their lives and families and so I hardly see them anymore.

HHMM: It also struck me that The Clouds actually played at the first ever Big Day out. If the tour goes well would there be any chance of making it to the 20^th Big Day Out?

JP: I guess so, yeah, that would be fun. We’ll see….

HHMM: You’ve continued to make music since The Clouds under a couple of different banners. Is it something that once its in the blood, its there to stay.

JP: Oh yeah, absolutely. For me I’ve had to make a choice about do I continue being a musician and try to make a living doing that, or do I go to uni or what do I do. All the other Clouds have got jobs. My husband and I make music and we put out our own music and we make music for screen so we are more composers. I have a vocal quartet called the Glamma Rays.  So I keep very busy and music is everything still.

The tour dates:

Thu Aug 18. The Tivoli. Brisbane.

Fri Aug 19. The Palace. Melbourne.

Sat Aug 20. Enmore Theatre.  Sydney.

 

Joe Pug Interview

Joe Pug is a young Chicago based folk/country flavoured singer and songwriter, about to embark on his second Australian tour. He’s also one of the more interesting new artists to emerge in the last year. His songs are outstanding – suggesting influences such as Steve Earle and Bruce Springsteen, and reflecting his early literary education. But he’s also got a punk rock, DYI approach to his career. He built a fan base by giving his music away and playing incessantly. Recently he’s introduced the concept of no-fee tickets to shows, taking up a position that bands like Pearl Jam did in a well-publicized way a few years ago. He’s taken an approach to the industry of music that has made him a hero to the ‘anti-industry’ movement. He’s an interesting bloke.

HHMM: Let me congratulate you on two things. Firstly your songs and music and secondly the way you’ve dealt with the process of getting that music out to the people. Are you proud of both things?

JP: Thank you. I think I am very comfortable with the way we’ve gotten the word out there. I think we’ve been very fair with our fans like it was a relationship or a friendship or something like that.

HHMM: I guess it was a case of doing it by instinct more than any grand plan?

JP: We’re still doing it by instinct because there is no result of how its all gonna shake out or how its gonna work. How much have we benefited from giving the records away or how much have we benefited from doing “no fee” ticketing here in the States? I don’t know. I think it will make itself clear as time goes on.

HHMM: People in the independent scene see you as some kind of hero for taking an “anti-industry” approach to music. Was there a sense that you were re-writing the rules?

JP: You have no real choice because there are no rules right now and you have no choice but to write your own.  If I had come along ten years ago I might have chosen to go a more traditional route, but I didn’t really have that option. I would love to take a lot of credit for striking out on our own but it was kind of the only option we had.

HHMM: Do you kind of see yourself as a punk rocker playing folk music in terms of attitude?

JP: Well the first music that made me fall in love with music was Nirvana. Clearly Kurt Cobain had a very fraught relationship with fame and he yet he benefited more from it than any person has before or ever will. It’s a strange. I’ve never much identified with the folk community, but I’ve never much identified with the punk community either, if those things even exist.

HHMM: So do you identify more with Woody Guthrie or Kurt Cobain.

JP: Well we travel the country like Woody used to do, although I guess we are riding in the lap of luxury compared to the way he used to travel. I identify with both. I think they’re actually very similar.

HHMM: The other album that comes to mind when listening to Messenger, more in terms of attitude, is Springsteen’s Nebraska. Is that a big album in your musical lineage?

JP: I’ve definitely listened to Nebraska before and I definitely liked it, but I wouldn’t say it’s on my Mt. Rushmore of records, but I really do like it.

HHMM: What would be on your personal Mt Rushmore?

JP: Oh wow. You could put any one of Nirvana’s records up there. You could put Dylan’s Bringing It All Back Home up there. Warren Zevon – Excitable Boy. I’d put a John Hiatt record on there like Bring The Family or Slow Turning. Lucinda Williams. There’s a bunch of records that would have a legitimate claim to a spot up there.

HHMM: I want my record collection back.

JP:  Yeah, really.

HHMM: Do you think the fact that you actually studied writing has helped you economise your lyric writing at a young age. By that I mean- most songwriters in their early twenties try to squeeze every phrase and every idea into every song, like they are scared they’ll never get a chance to write another song. Your writing is very mature in that you economise with words. Is that the product of training?

JP: Well yeah. It’s something I spend a lot of time thinking about. I’m about half way through writing the new record right now and I feel like I’ve gotten more disciplined in paring it down. I’m just seeing how much I can take out, how many walls I can take out, before the whole thing comes crashing down. The problem is, once you start slashing stuff away, you can make a song so simple that it actually turns the corner and becomes really trite and stupid. So you have to leave just enough in there to make it idiosyncratic and meaningful.

HHMM: Listening to the record again, it kind of creeps up on me that there is a lot of Raymond Carver in there. Is that a fair comment?

JP: Oh, yeah. I’m a massive Raymond Carver fan, although I had not read a lot of him when I wrote those records.  Someone passed although firstly Cathedral and then What We Talk About When We Talk About Love. So probably there is his influence on a lot of the other writing that I was influenced by.

HHMM: The way that people have connected to the Messenger album – does that give you a greater sense of responsibility for the next record, knowing that there is an audience out there with expectations?

JP: It’s sort of a weird territory that I am trying to navigate right now, because I’ve never been in this position before. So I don’t know how to handle that. In one sense I’ve got to go forward and do exactly what I want to do and try and keep it between myself and the canvas, but at the same time I’m working hard on it because people are spending hard earned money on these records and I feel a responsibility  to be the best that I can.

HHMM: And in between times you manage to fit in your second trip to Australia in a few months. When you come through a town the second time is there a different feeling about it?

JP: The first time is always fun because there there’s a sort of exuberance, but I like coming back to a town because I get a chance to really develop a relationship with an audience and maybe play different songs I might not have played at the first gig and get a little bit deeper into my catalogue.

HHMM: Do you ever project ahead and think about going back to a town for the 30^th time? Are you a life prisoner of the troubadour life?

JP: There is no question I’ll be touring for a long time. This is how I make my living. I think it’s very important to what I do. I get sick of it too, like you get sick of any job. It’s so intense when you are on the road playing the same songs, but I think ultimately it informs my songwriting. I couldn’t imagine writing songs and not being on the road and taking it to people.

HHMM: The final song on Messenger, Speak Plainly, Diana, is the most sonically confronting song on the album. It’s almost Crazy Horse-like sonically. Can you see a whole album being made like that one day?

JP: I just gotta find the right players and I don’t think I’ve found the right players yet. But once I do I’m looking forward to trying some new directions.

ALL TICKETS ON SALE NOW • AVAILABLE ONLINE AT www.lovepolice.com.au/tours

FRIDAY 11 MARCH • NOTES, Sydney, NSW

SATURDAY, 12 MARCH • PORT FAIRY FOLK FESTIVAL

SUNDAY, 13 MARCH • PORT FAIRY FOLK FESTIVAL

WEDNESDAY 16 MARCH • MOJOS, Fremantle, WA with Justin Townes Earle

THURSDAY 17 MARCH • MOJOS, Fremantle, WA with Justin Townes Earle

FRIDAY 18 MARCH • FORUM THEATRE, Melbourne, VIC with Justin Townes Earle

SATURDAY 19 MARCH • MOSSVALE PARK, NEAR LEONGATHA, VIC

SUNDAY 20 MARCH • THE TOFF IN TOWN, Melbourne VIC

Violent Soho

Brisbane four piece Violent Soho are making a big splash internationally being signed to the label run by Thurston Moore of Sonic Youth. Their self titled album is out on Moore’s Ecstatic Peace label in the US and they have been touring there strongly since the release.

The band line-up is  Luke Boerdam on guitar/vocals, James Tidswell on guitar/vocals, Luke Henery on bass and Michael Richards on drums.

There’s been much made of the fact that the band wear flannel shirts and many commentators have labelled them the first band in the second coming of grunge but to me they sound a lot more like Smashing Pumpkins than Nirvana, Soundgarden or Mudhoney. Some may argue that that’s not a huge distinction but to these ears the structure of the songs and Boerdam’s vocal style scream Billy Corgan.

But the bottom line  – regardless who they sound like – is that they are a really good heavy rock band. The rhythm section drives with the power of a sledgehammer, the guitars snarl and Boerdam’s lyrics are an authentic statement of  suburban white boy angst. The album was produced by the venerable Gil Norton who has the band sounding great (no surprises there) and all in all they have offered up a superior album.

Highlights of the disc include the attention grabbing opener Here Be Dragons, the single Jesus Stole My Girlfriend, Generation, Muscle Junkie (with the obligatory “fuck you” refrain) and the very punk rock Love Is A Heavy Word. The more reflective Outsider shows a different side to the band and especially to Boerdam’s vocal.

Violent Soho may not be the most original sounding band but they are a welcome addition to a family of bands that produced some pretty essential music in their day. There could be a lot worse influences to have. I like ‘em.

To celebrate the release in Australia, the boys will embark on an East Coast tour during July, which will also coincide with their appearance at this year’s Splendour In The Grass.

Thursday, July 22: Northcote Social Club, Melbourne
Friday, July 23: Annandale Hotel, Sydney
Saturday, July 24: The Zoo, Brisbane